80% Is Where They Start. Why Owners Who Won't Delegate Become the Lid

0:00 Yo agency owners, you know how it goes. More plans, more pressure, more problems to solve. You built the machine, now you're stuck in the grind. More revenue coming, but you're running out of time. Agency advantage. Rad starts breaking it down. Better people, better systems, better moves all around. Leadership, leverage, profit, and scale. Real world lessons from the wins and fails. Build it smarter, lead the team, take your freedom back. Agency advantage. Now you're on the right track.

0:28 What's going on everybody? Welcome back to another episode of Agency Advantage. Today I've got Dr. William Addaway, founder of Catalytic Leadership and CEO of Appreciation at Work. He wrote the book Catalytic Leadership, hosts a top 1.5% leadership podcast, and coaches agency owners who are stuck as the bottleneck. Here's why I want him on. His whole pitch is that the leader is the ceiling of the organization. And most founders are lying to themselves about why they can't grow past it. If you ever felt like the business can't outgrow you, this one's for you. Dr. Addaway, welcome on.

0:58 Brad, thanks so much for having me, man. I'm excited to be here.

1:01 Yeah, absolutely. Me as well. So uh, you know, I kind of introduced, you know, who you are and everything like that, but uh, why don't you kind of give us like a high-level uh, you know, elevators pitch in a way of like what you do for agency owners and like how you help them solve it.

1:16 You know, for for just over 30 years now, I've been coaching leaders and teams across a variety of different industries. But my primary niche is agency owners. And the reason for that is simple. Uh I grew up in that world. My dad started a traditional ad agency back in the 70s, ran it for 40 years. I understand what it is to run an agency. I understand the challenges, and helping people to overcome those is something I really enjoy.

1:41 Yeah, absolutely. You know, you think about like a traditional ad agency. That's not what we see today in terms of like meta ads and Google ads and and all of that. And so you you you've you you saw all that, right? Like this transition of going from, you know, traditional advertising, uh, which I don't know what exactly he did, but it probably something along the lines of like print, billboards, like TV advertising, radio, that type of stuff to now digital advertising, right? And so you got to see that shift. But you and I had the opportunity to actually talk yesterday. And so you mentioned to me like this growth phase where he had some employees and then he went down, had some employees and went down. And so I'm sure like that was a huge aspect of like what you saw growing up as well. Um, why don't you kind of walk me through like what that looked like for you? You know, uh, I oftentimes now think of myself like, how does this affect my wife? How does it affect my kids? Right. And so from the growing up, from the child's perspective, what was that like seeing that and in your dad as an agency owner?

2:38 You know, you always look up to your parents. You know, you look, and there's so many things that I learned from my dad that I carry through to this day. Um, but there are also things that you learn not to do. And and I think watching him try to build a business from nothing and building it to a level of success. I mean, he provided for our family, you know, for my my whole growing up years. The challenge was that he was the he was the cap, he was the lid. You know, it would he would hire people to help with fulfillment, that would begin, and then they would kind of start to filter out. And then he would hire some more and then they would filter out. And it would the biggest problem from the outside looking in was delegation. You know, when you when you hold on so tightly to things that you believe only you can do the way you do them, that is a challenge. You become the the center of the spotter web, so to speak, where everything connects to you. And if you take you out, the whole thing collapses. And I think that was one of the major problems that he struggled with.

3:37 Yeah. Yeah. And it's tough, right? Like uh, and I think some of it is also like the the cultural, the times, like that type of thing. Like I I grew up, like I remember my dad, like a lot of respect for my parents and the hard work that they've done. Like uh one of the things my wife and I bonded on very early on was like we both knew like what uh like what payday was. So that's when we got new groceries, right? Like that that's like that's how tight things were at. And like both of our parents, now that we are out of the house, are in a much better, you know, financial position. I've been loving to watch their growth and how they've grown. Um, but one of the things that like my dad instilled in me very early on was like, yes, like there is pride in like paying somebody else to do the work, but like, what's that pride of like doing this work yourself, like doing that home improvement yourself, like those types of things? And there is some of that pride, right? But now like I'm at the point where I'm like, uh, we have this huge project that I want to do. I want to, you know, take out the sliding glass door and put in a window. And uh, and I'm like, yeah, I I could do that myself. There'd be a lot of pride in doing that. But I'm at the point now where I'm like, I'm gonna have a lot more pride working my butt off in my in my company to find the extra money to go pay somebody else to do that. Uh and but I think my point being here is the times in which we're in now are different. So I think historically, like people were always like, you, you, you have to grind, you have to do it yourself. And now people are beginning to see this more like, hey, this this delegation thing is pretty cool, like to be able to like handle hand things off to other people, uh, whether it's both in your business or or or personally. Um you know, as you've you didn't just land into coaching and leading agencies, like, yes, you have this background from growing up in it. There's a gap in between. So I just kind of highlight like what your uh people who are coming to work with you, like there is more than just that as your expertise. Uh those who are listening, uh, I'm looking at Dr. Adderway and he's probably got about 10,000 books on his bookshelf behind him. So he's got a wealth of knowledge. Uh, but well, like why don't you kind of give us that little gap there?

5:36 Yeah. So I mean, if you look back over my career, it's it is very uh it is varied. I'll say that. You know, uh I started in the corporate world. I was in sales, uh, working for a cell phone carrier back in the the early to mid 90s, uh, when cell phones were were big and bulky, think bag phones and brick phones, right? This was uh this was a very different era. Um, but you know, coming out of that and finishing college, going to graduate school, you know, my PhD is actually in archaeology and biblical backgrounds. You know, I've spent time working on dig sites overseas in the Middle East in Jordan, uh, you know, getting my hands dirty in the field, writing reports, you know, doing research in that vein in the academic world. I spent 12 years teaching in that world. I spent 29 years as a local church pastor, helping people to navigate with the different seasons of their life, you know, from the very beginning to the very end. Uh, you know, but through the whole thing, working with coaching leaders and teams, helping them to navigate very common leadership struggles. You know, when somebody starts a business, and entrepreneurs are my favorite. When you start a business, you start it because you're really good at something, you know, and and as you find success, you have to hire people to help you with fulfillment. And then one day you wake up and you look around, and around the table or on the Zoom call, there's a whole bunch of people looking to you to lead. And that is a different skill. It really is. You may be phenomenal at Google Ads, awesome. You may be just world class at SEO, fantastic, but leading people is a different skill. And what I found is that these amazingly gifted entrepreneurs were hitting a lid of their own leadership, what they did not know. It's very difficult to see the whole picture when you're in the frame.

7:18 Yeah.

7:19 And so what I do is I come alongside and help them to see from a different perspective. And I could do that with the varied experiences that I've had that all contribute into who I am and how I do what I do.

7:29 Yeah, absolutely. As well as things like, you know, I talk with people on the hiring side, and you know, you know, we aren't perfect. There's placements that don't work. There's, you know, we have so many placements that do work that then to don't, right? But like when I talk with some of the ones that don't work out, like oftentimes, like we one of the things we do is we'll we have an exit survey for both the client and the candidate, right? Because sometimes it's a different point of view. And what I've found is that oftentimes when it doesn't work the client, sure, are there talent that doesn't perform? Sure. Oftentimes it's like that person wasn't ready to lead. That person wasn't ready to like have somebody report up to them. Um, and so you know, you work with a ton of agencies. And so those who are going from this shift of like, hey, I've been doing this myself. I've been using white label, you know, that type of thing. I've been using some freelancers, but now I need to like shift my mindset to like leading a team, growing a team, uh, and like, you know, as you said, kind of looking in the mirror. What's that first mindset shift that you really see them kind of unfold as they kind of take that next leap?

8:27 You know, one of the one of the first ones that I try to help them navigate is something that somebody shared with me 20 years ago. He I remember him saying he said, if somebody else can do something 80% as well as you can, then you gotta let them do it. You gotta hand it off. And man, I push back so hard on that. I was like, 80%. 80%. That's like a C. Come on, man. I don't we don't do C level work around here. Okay. That's not who we are. I don't accept that. You know what I discovered is what he said next. And I discovered this through my own fumbling and stumbling through this. What he said next was, yeah, but 80% is where they start. Where did you start? You got to give them the same opportunity to learn and grow that you had. And man, that hit so hard. And I I I I thought I could disprove it. And in fact, all I did was prove it over and over and over again. Helping people understand the power of delegation is when someone else starts at 80% of the level that you do something at, that's where they're starting and they're gonna grow from there. Nobody is fantastic at anything the first time they do it.

9:32 Yeah. But they get better. Yeah, absolutely. It's you know, it's like w w watching a kid learn how to walk, right? Like they don't learn how to walk at the first try. And now you got a two-year-old. I'm looking at myself who like is like the Tasmanian devil, and you're like, why did you start walking at 10 months old? Like, let's not do this again. Uh but like to your point, like uh, and I think uh often people quote Dan Martell where he says in his book like uh 80% done by somebody else is 100% awesome. Uh the book was not written 20 years ago. So like you know, I hear people quote Dan Martell all the time, and it's like, this is this is a little bit older than uh than what uh Dan Martell and his book did. That's the gray hair man. Uh so you know, yes, there's this aspect of like delegating and everything like that, and that's a huge mindset shift. Uh, one of the things you said to me yet yesterday as we were talking was like this concept of this bridge and building the bridge. I'm not even gonna like try to like fumble what the phrase and the analogy that you use was, but why don't you kind of walk us through that aspect?

10:34 Yeah. So when I start working with somebody, we define two things at the very beginning. First, we define where you are, right? And then we define where you want to be. Now, those sound very simple. And as I say them, your listeners may be thinking, well, I know where I am and I know where I want to be. That's great. You know what I find though is that most often there is an extreme lack of clarity on one of those points. Sometimes both, but most often just one. And it's when I press and start asking some more questions and try to dial it in that we discover there's really not a clear picture, not as clear as it could be and should be. So that's what we do first. We define where you are and then we define where you want to be. Once we have those two points clearly defined, then we can build a bridge from here to there. I find building the bridge is the easy part. Defining those two points with clarity, yeah, that takes some work.

11:28 Okay. Okay. So you you mentioned like, I'm here now, and I know like people say, Oh, yeah, like I'm here now, I know where I'm going. Uh what do you typically see like when somebody comes in and says, I know where I'm going, what is that to when they're done working with you or they they begin to have this mindset shift? Where does that I know where I'm going now change to?

11:48 You know, Brad, I'm a data guy, right? That that's how I'm wired. Yeah. And so what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna take this and I'm gonna say, paint me a picture with as many colors and brushes as you need of exactly where you are and where you want to go. We're gonna get that. But what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna convert that into some metrics. I'm gonna convert that into data measurement because I believe you measure what matters, right? If I ask you, hey, have you looked at your checking account in the last month? You'd probably say yes, right? Because you want to know how much is in there, right? Some people can tell you like every day what their balance is. They measure what matters, right? Well, the same thing is true when it comes to what we're talking about here, your own personal growth, your own personal development, or your achievement toward your goals, your progress towards your goals, right? You may think, hey, you know, what I want is margin. I don't have enough margin in my life. I feel like I'm just a firefighter moving from fire to fire to fire to fire. Go to bed, get up, start over, fire, fire, fire. Okay, great. So you you have a margin problem. Great. How are we gonna measure margin? Now that's gonna be a little different for every person. Depends on what you do, how you do it. Depends on, do you have a family? Do you have kids? Margins gonna look different in different seasons. I've got a uh we got two daughters, my wife and I, right? One's finishing grad school next year, one's finishing college next year, right? Dad's about to get a raise, right? That's exciting. No more tuition payments, right? But I don't have the same margin problem that I had when they were toddlers. Yeah. When they were toddlers, that was a whole different season. I didn't travel and speak nearly as much in those days as I do now because it's a different season. Helping people understand seasons is another piece of this. When you think about your your time and your life in terms of seasons, it really helps to put perspective on okay, what should I expect? Remember, disappointment, discouragement, frustration, bitterness, all of those things come from missed expectations. Sometimes we need to define and right-size our expectations, not just of other people, but of ourselves.

13:57 Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's it's it's crazy as you kind of talk through this, right? Like the the different seasons, you know, you you're you're talking on two different spectrums, right? I'm in that toddler phase. I got a two, an almost two-year-old next month and a seven-month old in five days. And so, like, uh, you know, I'm in that area versus you're on the other end of that, right? Like, yeah. Uh, I think it was I think it was Nick Horde on the podcast. He's like, that is your the definition of being psychotic, uh, having two good centers, too. And I'm like, thanks, Nick. I I I appreciate that. Thanks, man. That's right. That's right. But I mean, it's true, right? And so, you know, you have that, and so like when I look at things, I'm like, you know, man, there's these people and they're doing this and they're doing this. And it's like, whoa, whoa, look at this season of life that I'm in. Uh, even now is a different season of life than it was six months ago when our daughter was first born. Uh, and you know, that whole chaos. And so, you know, as people are trying to navigate this, I would say that is a huge mindset change of like, hey, like I'm in a different season. So I imagine you work with a lot of people and like when they're like comparing themselves to others, and they're like, but this person has this, but this person has this. Uh what do you say to them when they're trying to compare themselves to others?

15:10 Comparison is a game that everybody plays and nobody ever wins. Okay. You can always find people who are farther down the road than you are, and you can always find people who are not as far as you are. You look at the first group and you're like, why am I not there? Why am I not where they are? You look at the second group and you start to get arrogant. And you start to think, man, look at me, I'm just all that. Either way, you lose. Comparison's a game nobody ever wins. Everybody plays it, nobody wins it. And so what I have to do is help people to understand that understanding that truth, that principle. Now, then let's talk about the expectations you have of yourself. Because really and truly, that's the only comparison you need to be thinking about. What is my capacity in this season? See, that's going to move. That's going to change. I mentioned earlier I didn't travel and speak nearly as much when my kids were toddlers as I do now. Now I've got a lot more margin to do that.

16:06 Yeah.

16:07 But I don't have the same things going on at home. It's a different season, right? And I think you have to, you have to, you have to right size that. Right sizing your expectations of yourself and of the season you're in is one of the biggest mindset shifts that I see is necessary. Yeah, absolutely.

16:23 You know, and so there's seasons of life in terms of personally, right? We talk about this toddlers versus not, and uh, you know, going out of grad school. Uh, I don't know if your daughters are are married yet, but uh I saw I saw what my parents just did for my sister. So you may be saving some money for a little bit once grad school is done, but just wait for the bill of the wedding. We'll wait for that bill. Uh and I'm like, uh and we have one daughter, and I'm already thinking about that bill, and it's 25 years from now. Uh, but uh, you know, we we have these, we have these personal seasons, but then we also have seasons as business owners in terms of growth, right? And so you you work with agency owners, my assumption is at different phases. You probably have some people who are at like 30k, some people who are at like 60, 70. Then you probably work, you know, uh, you're part of the some bigger agency community. So with like a lot of Titans that are doing like seven, eight figures. Um there's a different like mindset shift. You you probably being data driven can say, hey, at this revenue range, they're probably going through this. At this revenue range, they're probably going through this type thing. For those who are listening, they're like, hey, I'm at 50. As they get to those next little levels, like, what do you think they can kind of expect of like, hey, some of the mindset changes you're gonna have to start going through once you get from like 50k to, you know, uh MRR to seven figures to multiple seven figures to eight figures. What does that mind shift like change look like over time?

17:45 You know, let me let me start with the top end of that because I just yesterday had a conversation with a guy who just completed an exit, right? He got a 10X EBITDA, right, on his exit, which is which is great. Yeah. I mean, that's a that's a fantastic exit, right? Yeah. So we talked about this and he shared something that was part of his journey that I think may be helpful for your listeners. He said, he said, you know, building the building the business was one thing. Learning how to delegate, learning how to structure all the different pieces and components that come to building a healthy and sustainable business over time. It involves planning, it involves strategic thinking, it involves goal setting, all the things that we talk about and know. He said, But when it, when I, when I came time, when it came time to really get serious about the exit, he said, I learned something I didn't know. And I had to make a huge mental shift. I had to move into maintenance mode.

18:37 Okay.

18:37 I couldn't start a new strategic plan. I couldn't start a new initiative because nobody wants to buy something that is half done, right? And nobody wants, and and the owner doesn't want to have invested all this into a new initiative or a new strategic plan and it not be fruit, like not be all the way to the fruitful piece, right?

18:56 Mm-hmm.

18:57 Yeah. And he said, he said, that was something I did not know that I had to move into maintenance mode at that point as I was preparing to exit, because I had to have that completed. The strategic plan I was on had to be finished, and I couldn't start a new one. And I thought that was so impactful because what he was saying was he had to shift his mindset. And the worst thing you can tell an entrepreneur or a founder is I just want you to maintain for a while. I don't want you to start anything new. Don't do any new initiatives, no new plans. I just want you to maintain things. Yeah. I mean, yeah, they want to like stick an ice pick in their eyes. Like, come on, no, that's awful. But that's the mindset that was necessary for him to achieve that level of exit. Compare and contrast that with somebody who's at 30, 40, 50 KMRR, right? Do they need to be thinking maintenance mode? Not even close. It's a whole different ballgame. It's a different, it's a different season. And you've got to think about that and say, what season am I in? I have to define that. And what is the next season? What's the season I want to be in next? And then you've got to move from here to the again, you're building that bridge, but you've got to define the terms. If you take what somebody else is doing as they're getting ready to exit and you say, Oh, well, that's what I should do. Look how successful they are. I should just do that. Man, you're copy and pasting from somebody else's playbook in the wrong season.

20:18 Yeah, absolutely. But at the same time, there's probably also things from their playbook to copy and paste as well, right? Like there's, I'm sure you talk with a lot of people who get to that level and they're like, I grinded my way to the top, right? And so like now I'm like, I look up and I'm like, I don't have any hobbies. I don't, you know, have these things. And probably some of those people, you probably work with them on like trying to figure out what you love out outside of your work and outside of your job, right? And so, like, uh, you know, I've had people on the podcast who have talked about that. And uh even uh Tim Brown, who with Hook Agency, you know, he's now like he's got somebody running his agency. He's doing a roofing company. Uh, this was before we relaunched under agency advantage, but like he told me on the podcast, he's like, uh at the time he was taking Thursdays off. He was trying to figure out how to just go fishing or just do something on Thursday for himself because everything else revolves around the business and revolves around, you know, his family and everything like that. There was nothing he was doing more that like revolved around him in a way. Um, and so like that is something like that I copied and pasted out of his playbook. I'm like, okay, like I need to find, I don't take Thursdays off, but I need to find something that like I that lights me up, right? Because I'm in that mode where now I got the wife and the kids and the business, and everything revolves around them. What can revolve around Brad and light him up? So definitely like, yes, there are things you shouldn't be listening to from those who are further away, but there's things that um that you should also listen to. It's also important why you work with coaches like uh like Dr. Adway as an example, because you know, I'm sure you talk with people and you're like, hey, these guys you think you're you're watching, they have a lot more problems than you think that they have. And I don't think you're ready for those problems. We need to work on all these things, uh, all these things in in between. Um, so you have two companies. You have the Leadership company, you have your appreciation at work. And I know that you have kind of the research behind the five languages of appreciation. My assumption is, I haven't done much research. My assumption is like that's how you can show appreciation towards people in your workplace or in your life. What has, out of all the data points that you've seen, like what has most surprised you out of the concept of showing appreciation to people out?

22:29 You know, as you as you dive into the research on this, the thing that really shocked me as I as I did that, 79%, this is this is Gallup's number. 79% of people who quit their job voluntarily do not quit because of payer benefits. 79% of people who quit say a key factor was that they did not feel appreciated. Brad, that is such a solvable problem. We can fix that as leaders. We can fix that as owners. The problem is so often we're trying to show appreciation in a language they don't speak. What Dr. Gary Chapman and Dr. Paul White did in this in the book that we talk about, it's the the five languages of appreciation in the workplace, right? This book has sold nearly 900,000 copies since it was released 16 years ago. It still sells three to 4,000 copies a month now, 16 years after publication. The reason is because that resonates. This idea of showing people appreciation according to how they are wired instead of how we are, that's what makes the difference. What I have found in the research that we have done is that when companies and organizations apply these principles of appreciating people according to how they're wired, when they apply that framework, they see on average a 22% increase in productivity and an almost 20% increase in profitability. I don't know a business owner that would not be interested in that. That is with no additional headcount. That is simply showing appreciation appropriately to the people who work.

24:00 Yeah, absolutely. And uh our our church, like they uh Dr. Gary Chapman just came and preached at our church like two weeks ago. And he preached on the five, the five love languages. But even that, like, I left that. I was like, I'm taking the five love languages quiz. And like what was like surprising about me is zero percent of my love language is gift giving. And gift giving has been like one of the hardest. Like people always tell me it's hard to give you gifts because I just go out and buy what I want. I just go out and buy what I need. And so I just I'm not somebody to give gifts. And like it dawned on me like, oh, there's people who enjoy gift giving as like their their love language. So I'm sure there's things like that. Um, you know, my my love language is acts of service, uh, which is ironic given talent delegation. I think there's some some correlation there. But my my wife's is uh like words of affirmation, right? And so like it's like you begin to think and wire your brain differently of like, oh, I need to do things that support their love language. And one of the things that he said, and I'm sure you probably talk about this as well, is like on like the spousal aspect of things, uh one that was interesting is no oftentimes, most times two people like in a marriage never have the same love languages. It's always different. Um, but then in addition to that, what he found is that oftentimes when one person begins the action of like doing the other person's love language or language of appreciation and work in this case, it takes two to three months, and then the other people begin to just naturally reciprocate that as well. And so I'm sure you see that, which affects, you know, culture and all that stuff. Like, hey, if you begin to show these signs of appreciation, it may take a while, but then eventually they're gonna start coming back to you as well.

25:46 That's exactly right. And it's interesting to note that about 60% of the people that we have surveyed, we've had about almost 500,000 people take the assessment to discover their language of appreciation in the workplace. Almost 60% of people have a different language in the workplace than they do at home. That's interesting. I'm I'm in the 40%, right? Mine is the same in both. Mine is words of affirmation, but over half the people, that's not the case. So understanding how somebody is wired at work and understanding how they're wired at home helps you to get an actual 3D view of this person as a human being instead of just as a cog in the machine that does a function.

26:23 You know, it's it I'm gonna go after we hop off this recording. Like, I'm gonna go if there is a quiz for like appreciation at work, because now I'm curious, like, are mine the same in the workplace or as home or are they different or not? Because now you now you have my wheels turning on us and different things. So uh, you know, one of the questions I have here is you you you wrote a book and it says it has 12 keys in it. Like, which one do your clients fight you the hardest on?

26:47 Ooh. Well, okay, I'm gonna give you a bonus because the first thing that I said in the book, the first key to becoming an intentional leader that makes a difference is a teachable spirit. And the number one reason why I don't take someone on as a client is they don't have a teachable spirit. That's the first thing I measure when I'm talking to somebody. Are they teachable? Or do they already think they know all the answers? If they already think they know all the answers, this is not going to be a good experience for them or for me. And I'm not gonna waste my time and their money. It just doesn't make any sense. So the teachable spirit is the number one thing that I look for. To say which of one of my clients struggle with the most, that wouldn't, that wouldn't apply because I don't take them on. You don't have that, right? I I think the the one that really, really is is the hardest of the remaining ones is the last one that I talk about, and that's leading yourself. It's so much easier to lead other people than it is to lead yourself. You're the hardest person you're ever gonna lead because you have what's called the fundamental attribution error, which means that you understand your intent and you judge yourself by your intent and you judge other people by their words and their actions, right? So somebody says or does something, you're like, oh, what a jerk, right? But you say or do the same thing, and you're like, oh, well, I was just I was having a hard day. Oh, well, you know, that was it was because of, you know, man, I've just I just didn't feel so hot. Oh, it's because, you know, there's always a reason. The human capacity for rationalization and justification is pretty much limitless in my experience. And that's the problem. That's why you're the hardest person you'll ever lead, because you can rationalize or justify just about anything.

28:25 Yeah.

28:25 Yeah.

28:25 I mean, like I did I did it today. I uh we're doing a yard project and I wanted to see how much it was gonna cost. And if the uh the nursery would drive a truck up into our yard in our backyard off the main road and dump five five cubic yards of dirt. Yeah. They opened at nine. I was there at nine o'clock. And I justified that I'm the owner of the company and I work crazy hours, and so I'm gonna be there at nine o'clock, right? But if that was one of my team members who just took time off work, like it's a different thing, right? It's as you're talking, I'm like, dang it, Doctor Hadaway, you're talking at me. Uh but you know, and so like in my mind, I'm justifying like, you know, going there at the same time, you know, and this is you're probably sitting here thinking, oh, brides are wrong in the same game, but like I do work crazy hours. I was in bed last night, which is not not not a good thing to do. But I was in bed last night, prompting claw, doing work and working, you know, for an hour, laying in bed. My wife was asleep and I'm on my phone doing stuff, right? I do technically have the right to be able to go to the nursery at nine o'clock in the morning, but that's just like one area, you know, it's your health, your finances, your, you know, everything like that that uh that people um oftentimes, you know, are their uh works or easiest critic um in as well. So yes.

29:37 And and and you're spot on, by the way. This morning I had breakfast with a dear friend of mine, right, who's retired now, and we had a great breakfast, which meant I was late getting into the office here and responding to emails and voicemails and text messages and all that stuff, right?

29:51 Yeah.

29:52 That's okay. One of the joys of being an entrepreneur is that we get to create the life we want to live in. We get to decide what is allowed. We get to decide. That's okay.

30:05 So one of the things I want to ask you, you have two companies, right? Two companies, podcasts, coaching practice. Uh, where is it that you are still the ceiling inside of your own organizations?

30:18 What a great question. So, you know, sitting on the hot seat is something that I do with the coaches that I have. Uh, you know, I I have had coaches for decades. Uh, just last week was sitting with one of them, and we spent about an hour and a half talking through a number of issues that I'm wrestling with right now. And one of the things that he told me was here's an area where you are not letting go. Here's an area where you are the bottleneck. Oh man, I hate that. Wait a minute. I'm the guy who talks about this. I'm the guy who helps other people with this. Clearly, that can't be something I struggle with. Right. Wait, I'm human.

30:57 Yeah.

30:58 And I need somebody to call that out. I need somebody to call it out. And more than that, to hold me accountable to making the necessary change because that's not who I want to be. And we get to choose whether we're going to stay as we are or whether we're going to move toward who we want to be.

31:14 Yeah, absolutely. You know, you mentioned, you know, you're a coach, you have coaches. Coaching is a crowded market. Uh, you know, I feel like every third person on LinkedIn that adds me like is a is a leadership coach. Uh how does an owner tell the difference between somebody who can actually help uh and somebody with a framework and like a basic like Canva template? That's a good question.

31:40 I would talk to people that they've worked with, you know. Um, one of the things that that I do, like on our site, is I I have testimonials, quotes, reviews from people that I've worked with that you can go and you can read and you can see. Uh, and you know, agency folks, people who aren't, C-suite leaders, you know, it doesn't matter. What I want people to understand though is that that is, I think that's the that's the key. Were you able to help other people with what I'm struggling with? And if you were, then I believe you can help me. If you've never helped anybody with this, well, I I can still roll the dice if I feel good, but it's it's more of a gamble, really, at that point. You're right. Coach, coaches are everywhere. Um, and I I think it's important to see some some results. You know, do you have people that I can talk to who you help them navigate and now they have a positive ROI from their investment? Because that's where coaching, just like anything else in a business, is an investment. You're saying I'm gonna trade something of value for something that I believe will give me more value. Yeah, absolutely. That should bear out. And if it's not, the question, and this is where I have a real problem with some in the coaching industry. They're like, well, you can't really measure what we do. Well, I think I think you measure what matters. So I think you can.

32:57 Yeah, absolutely. Well, those things like he, you know, it we hopped on prior to recording. I'm like, hey, before we record, I'll let you know, like we are we are moving forward with that. Like, and that's part of the reason why we had a call yesterday for those who are listening. But like, I hopped on that call and I was like, I was talking to this one person and we hopped off the podcast and we were talking about something. He said, You need to talk with Dr. Adelaide. I have no clue what I'm on here talking about. I just know I need help. And uh that's where we're at, right? And we we walked, it was a 26-minute call, right? And like by the end of the call, you were able to like really not zero in, but there was enough there that I was like, yeah, like this is the guy that I'm working with. But also for me, I'm like, my my ideal clients, agency owners, you work with agency owners, like it's a perfect mesh because you not only see my prompts, but you see their problems too, right? Uh and so to the point of an investment, it's a great investment to make uh in that sense. Uh over the years, being a coach, you've given a ton of advice. What's one piece of advice you used to give that you've stopped giving?

33:51 Oh, what a great question. Oh, I'm totally stealing that from my podcast. That's really good. What a great question. Thank you, Claude. Thank you. Oh my goodness, that's fantastic. A piece of advice I used to give that I have stopped giving. Oh. You know, I one of my favorite Saturday Night Live sketches is with Bob Newhart. And it's with Bob Newhart who is portraying uh a psychologist. And somebody comes in who has a fear of being buried alive in a box. And if you haven't seen the sketch, it's worth the the seven or eight minutes that it'll take you to watch. Um and Bob, in his traditional deadpan, like absolutely dry way, says, Well, I'm gonna give you two words that I think will help. Well, do I need to write these down? Well, if if you need to, you can. Most people can remember them. Stop it. And I just I love that. And that's really the gist of his of his counsel, right? Stop it. Just stop it. I think early on, and I think back to the early days when I was trying to help leaders to overcome things, they were struggling with things that I didn't struggle with. Everybody struggles with something, everybody struggles with a certain pattern of things. And they we don't all have the same things that we struggle with. And so it's very easy when somebody else is struggling with something that you're that you don't to have that same level of advice. Just stop it. Just stop it. Um, it's not that easy. When you have a pattern of behavior that has rooted in your life, it is not that easy just to say stop it and and follow through on that. And I think that took me some time to learn. I think early on there was an immaturity in some of the advice that I gave. And I think that was that really illustrates that. That that stop was just stop it. Just because I don't struggle with what you're struggling with doesn't make it any less real or difficult than the things I do. And once I once I connected those dots, it changed what I say.

35:51 That's uh that's interesting. I I've just been posting about my my journey with like quitting energy drinks. I'm like five weeks in, six weeks in, whatever it is. It's been two years of me trying to quit, eight years of drinking them. And I've had people tell me, just quit them, just quit drinking them. Not that hard. Quit drinking them. Just stop it. Do you know the shakes that I went through? Do you know the headaches that I still go through? Do you know the you know, the anger that I was getting, the frustration I was getting when changing my son's diaper because I was having withdrawals from energy journeys. Right. And so like I I I love that as it's like you know, you could just tell somebody just to stop it, stop doing what they're doing. Uh but one of the uh books, the seven habits of highly affected people, is seek first to understand, then to be understood, right? And so that's what I see here is like uh how can you seek first to understand what people are going through and then to be understood in this case. So as we uh as we wrap up, Dr. Attaway here, uh, for those who are listening, you know, we probably have a wide range of guests listening here from those who are, you know, just launching their agency, maybe you know, there's somewhere along the journey and some who, as you mentioned, the guy that just went through an exit. What's like if there's one piece of advice that you could give them, what is it?

37:05 Do the next right thing. Most of us don't need more information. We need execution. Information alone never leads to transformation. Information plus execution leads to transformation. So often what I'm working with clients on is not giving them brand new information they've never heard before. It's holding them accountable to execution on the things that they already know. Sometimes they need to be reminded, but most often it's accountability to execute, to say, I need to take action on this thing. I need to start that podcast, I need to go and sponsor that conference, I need to do that cold outreach, whatever it is. Like I need to do that thing. Yeah. There's a lot of reasons not to, but action is what makes the difference. Which doing cold outreach sucks, by the way. I hate it.

37:49 But I'm the one that you have to say, just go do the cold outreach. And I'm like, can I hire somebody to do that? Uh but yes, you can. Yes, you can. Yep. So, well, Dr. Attaway, thank you again for hopping on here. For those who are listening, please don't forget to like and subscribe. And also let's share this episode so we can get this into the hands of more agency owners and help them go what they're going through with Dr. Attaway. But until next time, this is the agency advantage.